RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 12/30/2008 9:33 PM

dolstinske

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From: San Jose, CA, USA
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Hey all, I'm brand new to this site, brand new to electrics and returning pattern guy after a 10 year hiatus. I am putting together an Angel 50 and have the recommended motor (A50-16s), but I'm completely bewildered about batteries. The recommended ones (Flight Power EVO 25 3300 or 3700) are VERY expensive, and I have found all kinds of lower cost alternatives, but they are all over the map in mAh, C ratings and weight. I am assuming that weight is paramount in this plane, but I have no idea how long it will fly with these. I would want to get through one complete pattern (advanced), hopefully two.

Suggestions or places I can go for help?

Off line is fine, I don't want to bore all you with this beginner stuff

Great site!

Dale

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 12/31/2008 12:05 AM

Jeff Boyd 2

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Hi Dale . .

Weight is not paramount in this plane, actually. Lighter (to a point) is always better, but this plane handles more weight very easily, probably due to it's initial VERY light construction.

I have always used 'cheap' batteries in this plane and the performance is outstanding. I only use the plane for F3A practice (between practices ;-) as I use a full 2M for competition, but it definitely does some things better than my 2M planes (e.g. snaps and spins. also, the 1 1/2 KE snap is much nicer with this plane) . . HOWEVER a friend of mine actually used this plane IN competition recently (F3A - P09) and scored high 400's in front of two World class judges (they ahve judged numerous World Champs and CAOCC events) . . SO the plane (and the pilot) is VERY capable.

I use ZIPPY "H" packs. My set-up is for 5S packs not 6S (different motor - Hyperion HP-Z4025 486kV) and runs at 1100W static at just over 60A draw, so I would expect the 6S set-up to be around 50A at 1100W. I fly a full P09 F3A schedule and replace around 2100mA into the pack (about 7 1/2 to 8 minutes flying with a lot of vertical stuff), so the 6S should use less than this . . maybe 1900mA? PS. You want to aim for 1000W to 1100W . . it flies OK at 750W BUT struggles with verticals. That's all I got out of OTHER packs using the same set-up ! ! The ZIPPY "H" have been the best to date.

The 3300mAh pack would be fine . . http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6419&Product_Name=ZIPPY-H_3300mAh_6S1P_20-30C_Lipoly_Pack

Although, if you want longer flight times, use the 4000mAh
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6415&Product_Name=ZIPPY-H_4000mAh_6S1P_25-35C_Lipoly_Pack

PS. these packs are 20C - 30C burst . . and that seems accurate ! . . and NO . . I am NOT sponsored by HobbyCity :-(

'Side comment' . . for long battery life . . I have found it best to only fly out 1/2 to 2/3 of the rated capacity of the pack, and more recently, I DON'T store them fully charged, leaving them as last flown . . i.e. about 1/2 capacity. That seems to be help too (many of us here have been flying LiPos for about 4 years and have tried MANY packs under all sorts of conditions . . Others might have different options and results, but I am happy with our testing to date :-)

Cheers, JB

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 12/31/2008 2:58 AM

tIANci

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Dale ... I am running the same set up as JB ... I got the Hyperion 4025-12 on Rhino 5S 4,900 mAh packs, a DualSky 60A ESC and turning a 16x10. The power set up is nice for pattern and not if you want to 3D. I got my CG nice with the set up, I still have a lot of space to move the pack fore or aft. My packs come down just starting to warm up only after a 6 min flight. I put back about 3,500 mAh.

I have some friends who run the Hyperion 4025-12 on an 80A ESC and they turn a 16x12 ... watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzyPoqQavQc&feature=channel_page

I find the Hyperion 4025 to be a really good combo. I did try the AXI 4120 and the DualSky 4260-6 (566KV) but they only are good for a 14x10-15x10. A 16"prop is really nice for the Angel.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 12/31/2008 8:38 AM

Sarah

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Hi Dale,

I have the standard Hacker motor set-up and I use the Flight Power EVO 25 3700 cells and also some Thunder Power 6s-5000, which are quite a bit heavier. I do find for pattern flying that the heavier Thunder Power 6s-5000 seem to be better then the lighter Flight Power EVO 25 3700. The Angel is very light anyway, which is great for 3D, but for pattern I think that a bit more weight does help to keep the manoeuvres flowing through. I'd like to know what the more experienced pattern flyers think. Cheaper cells are fine and I wouldn't worry too much if they are heavier.

Hope you enjoy your Angel

Sarah

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 12/31/2008 2:27 PM

dolstinske

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From: San Jose, CA, USA
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Thanks guys, I think I have been to concerned about weight, this is good advice. I think another reason to start with some cheap packs, since I am new to this, I may make a mistake or two, so no sense frying a $300 pack...

I wonder how the Hacker would work with 5 cells. Since my next plane will probably be 2 meter, I'm sure to go to a 10 cell motor, and I could use the five cell packs again?

Dale

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Post #: 355

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 12/31/2008 2:52 PM

dolstinske

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Sarah, so you use the A50-16s? What is your flite time with the 3700 pack?

Dale

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Post #: 356

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 12:07 AM

Jeff Boyd 2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dolstinske

Thanks guys, I think I have been to concerned about weight, this is good advice. I think another reason to start with some cheap packs, since I am new to this, I may make a mistake or two, so no sense frying a $300 pack...

I wonder how the Hacker would work with 5 cells. Since my next plane will probably be 2 meter, I'm sure to go to a 10 cell motor, and I could use the five cell packs again?

Dale

Dale . .

Just follow what is recommended and you shouldn't make mistakes. Frying packs is actually not that easy to do. You would have to do something REALLY wrong. It's important to size a pack for your application using reasonable "head room" in your calculation, the wiring must be adequate gauge to handle the current (what is supplied with the LiPo and ESC is usually more than adequate), make sure your ESC is set to low voltage cut-out, and use a GOOD charger, as overcharging is a killer (see this vid http://vimeo.com/2284976 . . this was done in a controlled situation by a modeller friend who flies all electric stuff AND is an electronics engineer)

The recommended Hacker will work on 5S, BUT . . it will need a MUCH larger prop . . maybe around 19 or 20" (as the RPM's will be reduced by about 1500 off the top). The Angel doesn't have the ground clearance for this.

A friend of mine has rewound his motors to optimise performance . . but I wouldn't recommend that. It does require some skill and expertise. e.g. as I remember ??? . . removing a couple of winds will increase the kV (revs per Volt) and allow the use of 15 or 16" props on 5S. NB. NOT recommended unless you know what you are doing.

Cheers, JB

< Message edited by Jeff Boyd 2 -- 1/1/2009 12:36 AM >

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 12:15 AM

dolstinske

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JB, Thanks. I have a Thunder Power charger and balancer, just ordered the Zippy's -H 3300 packs. Now I just need to get my thumbs back in shape

Dale

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 12:48 AM

Jeff Boyd 2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dolstinske

JB, Thanks. I have a Thunder Power charger and balancer, just ordered the Zippy's -H 3300 packs. Now I just need to get my thumbs back in shape

Dale

Yes . . they will be great (although I pretty much only use 4000mAh packs - but 5S). Do about a 5 minute flight and see what you put back in, then do your calculations to fly only about 2000mAh from the pack per flight. Set your Transmitter timer if you have one.

I have found that flying 'deeper' into the pack than say 2/3 capacity is when the pack starts to get NOTICABLY hotter, and my experience has been 'heat is the enemy' in electric stuff. Flying 1/2 to 2/3 of the capacity from my ZIPPY H packs results in the packs landing only slightly warm even on hot days (30degC plus).

Have fun . . great plane choice ;-)

Cheers, JB

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 1:09 AM

dolstinske

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JB, how much current do you use to charge these packs? I am playing with an older pack that someone gave me, and at 1 amp (it is a Zippy's 5000MAh pack) is taking almost 90 min now. almost done.

Dale

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 1:34 AM

matt13

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Happy New Year to all, JB, I have just got the same power combo that John was using in his Angle ( I wonder how many of us went out & did this after watching his flying at the State Champs ).
For the record it is a Turnkey SK series 50-65 380Kv with a Turnky Plush 80amp speedy and the Rhino 6s 3700mah battery.
This worked extremly well for John, & as this will be my first go at EP, I thought I would use what the experts use. This is a cheap set up (except for the Aussie dollar).
I still need to get a charger to handle the 6s batteries, and an airframe, but it will be the Angle of course. The plan is for this to be my practice/back-up pattern plane.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 2:33 AM

Jeff Boyd 2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dolstinske

JB, how much current do you use to charge these packs? I am playing with an older pack that someone gave me, and at 1 amp (it is a Zippy's 5000MAh pack) is taking almost 90 min now. almost done.

Dale

The 'rule of thumb' is to charge at 1C max . . e.g. with your 5000mAh it is a 5A charge rate.

I have tried different rates . . and they WILL handle a higher charge rate (NOT recommended) . . BUT I have had best results with charging at the corresponding rate of the exhausted capacity. i.e. if you fly about 2000mAh out of the pack, charge at 2A.

It's sort of theoretical to some degree . . but many of us have found the combination of:
1/ Fly only 1/2 to 2/3 of the rated capacity from the pack
2/ Store the packs 1/2 discharged
3/ Charge at the corresponding 'C' rating of the discharged value of the pack
. . ensures the best possible life from the packs (this is what we do, and it's our opinion only).

NB. SURE you can run them harder, and charge them faster, etc. (The ZIPPY H packs handle it easily) . . just not for as many cycles

Cheers, JB

< Message edited by Jeff Boyd 2 -- 1/1/2009 3:05 AM >

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 2:50 AM

Jeff Boyd 2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matt13

Happy New Year to all, JB, I have just got the same power combo that John was using in his Angle ( I wonder how many of us went out & did this after watching his flying at the State Champs ).
For the record it is a Turnkey SK series 50-65 380Kv with a Turnky Plush 80amp speedy and the Rhino 6s 3700mah battery.
This worked extremly well for John, & as this will be my first go at EP, I thought I would use what the experts use. This is a cheap set up (except for the Aussie dollar).
I still need to get a charger to handle the 6s batteries, and an airframe, but it will be the Angle of course. The plan is for this to be my practice/back-up pattern plane.

Hi Matt . . Happy New Year

WOW . . we might be able to hold a seperate class for Angel's ONLY

The Turnigy stuff is excellent value for money, and there are plenty of good chargers around reasonably priced these days. My charger is programmable (will store data allowing repeated charge programs) will balance charge up tp 12S (2 x 6S packs at once) and shows individual cell voltages as well as neat graphs . . and it was under US$200 . .

OR . . you can copy John's charge set-up . . I am sure his shed 'hums' and the Northern power grid struggles when he is charging

Cheers, JB

< Message edited by Jeff Boyd 2 -- 1/1/2009 2:54 AM >

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 5:16 AM

tIANci

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I like what Sarah said, the Angel needs some weight. At first I found it weird that when going over the top on something like a reversed Cuban, the plane will just hang there is you do not power up.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/1/2009 10:08 PM

Sarah

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Hi Dale,

I set my timer for 10 minutes, though I have a lot left in the cells. I think I need to put around 2300 - 2700 MAHr after a flight.

With any new plane I set the timer quite low, i.e 5 minutes then run a few cells through and see how much I need to put back in. I then increase the flight time by a minute each time until I am using no more than 80% max of the pack capacity. Do make allowances for different flying styles, trying new maneuvers and also stronger winds, etc.

Regards,

Sarah

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/7/2009 12:34 PM

Pepetone

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From: napoli, ITALY
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My Algels Evo50 sebart so configured :

- Brushless Motor Turnigy AerodriveXp SK Series 50-55 580Kv / 1580w
- Lipo Zippy-H 4000 5S 25-35C
- ESC 80A Turnygy Plush (timing hard)

Excellent quality (by Hobbycity), after 50 flights all ok. total weight 2.7 kg

This is the detailed test:

with propeller 14X7 APC-E -> 76A at 9100rpm
up to half a candle stick
There flight 10-11 minutes F3a reloaded with 3900mA (7 minutes Engine).
at the end of the flight Lipo and the ESC are just warm, the engine is cold.

ciao

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 12:34 AM

dolstinske

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Finished assembling the Angel, plan to fly this weekend. On the canopy, I assume washers are to be glued in the area above the magnets (this is not mentioned at all in the instructions), but this doesn't seem to be very secure. Is this correct? Has anyone had trouble with this?

Dale

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 10:18 AM

Bill Michie

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There should be magnets both in the canopy frame AND fuselage structure so shouldn't need anything extra adding......................just make sure they aren't loose!
Some people have found that adding a canopy latch gives extra security against the canopy departing in flight tho'
Bill.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 11:25 AM

Jeff Boyd 2

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From new . . I wicked thin CA around the magnets in the fuse and the hatch, then sealed the wood surface around them before placing a piece of cellotape over them . . just to be sure. The magnets are more than strong enough to work through the cellotape.

My canopy has never fallen off, and is still tight to remove.

I think loose magnets has been the biggest cause of canopies falling off . . I think ?

Cheers, JB

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 2:24 PM

Bill Michie

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And, IMHO, "pressurising" the fuselage with all the cooling air coming in the front (my theory anyway). Mine is an i/c setup and I took care to make sure ALL the holes into the fuz were closed (even the one in the front of the canopy frame). I've been fairly enthusiastic with my flying, including K/E loops, double negative snaps, etc, and SO FAR................it's stayed put! (fingers crossed and all!)
Bill.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 3:20 PM

dolstinske

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my canopy had no magnets installed, nor were there any in the parts bag

I'm going to have to make some kind of latch if I guess, if I want to fly soon.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 5:00 PM

tIANci

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Dols ... no magnets? That's weird, guess someone forgot to place them into the canopy. I suspect that many magnetic canopies are popping off because the contact is not flush or the twisting fuse in maneuvers causes the magnets to break the contact. I get my Hyperion Super Chipmunk's canopy that pops out during a KE only, I can race it like a pylon plane and nothing comes off. My EF Extra 300 45" one would sometimes pop its canopy off when I execute snaps.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 5:40 PM

wingster

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I took the magnets out and put in a spring loaded latch. When the magnets were in I ended up cracking the canopy when pulling up on it.

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 5:46 PM

dolstinske

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Did you find some packaged assembly for this, or did you build it? Mounted on the top?

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RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread - 1/8/2009 6:09 PM

wingster

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I used a HLRE001 latch from Hobby Lobby. http://www.hobby-lobby.com/hatchlatch.htm I glued the latch into the fuselage, just behind the top of the canopy.

You're going to love the Angel. I can't imagine a 50 size plane that flies any better.

< Message edited by wingster -- 1/8/2009 6:10 PM >

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