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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 2:13 PM   
Bob Pastorello



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quote:

ORIGINAL: krayzc-RCU

that DA-85 does change the game yes i have one and love it


What prop and rpm is your DA 85 running?

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 2:25 PM   
Jake Ruddy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bob Pastorello

Jake - some of us may WANT the DL twin, choosing it over other available engines for a variety of reasons. Your suggestion to "buy DA" is valid if you have both the DL 100 and the DA 85. Let us know your prop and tach/exhaust settings on your runs with these engines, so we'll have more information.


Bob.. I dont have a DA 85 yet.. but I did have a 3W 85.. It turned a Xoar 26x10 at 6300 all day long on a pitts muffler.. Vess 26A at 6500.

As far as the DA 85.. it's well known people are ripping 27" props on a pipe.. those with lots of time are turning 28" props in the mid 6k.

I just tached a DA 100 with a Mejlizk 27x10 at 6500 last week on stock mufflers

I have also played with 3 ZDZ super 80s and all of them turned 6200-6400 on a PT or Mej 26x10 with a pitts muffler when they were new... haven't tach'd them lately.


I have lots of first hand knowledge on the power of the engines I mentioned... all of which I have played with in person and flown quite a bit except for the DA-85. There are some of us who want to make a choice based on power and price... I have interest in a 100cc engine.. but I am just asking for other numbers to compare to make a good decision... 6000 on a pipe sounds like a header length problem to me which is why I asked for stoick exhuast numbers

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 2:30 PM   
Bob Pastorello



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Status: offline 		I understand, and I know you are well-experienced on these various bigger engines. That's one of the reasons I'm asking.
I don't know "come here" from "sic 'em" on these big twins, and openly admit such. This will be a learning curve for me, and I hope not a costly and regrettable experience.

At $40 - 50 + per prop, I'm sure not interested in buying paint stirrers....

I'll be running mine on stock exhausts, and Bob at DL USA says the 26 x 10 lets the engine turn up easier and unload a bit. I'm assuming (bad thing, I know) that these twins don't want to be overloaded anymore than any others, right?

Should I start with a NX or similar 26 x 10, or use the benchmark size from the get go?

Any advice appreciated.... (see line 2 of first paragraph....

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 2:41 PM   
Jake Ruddy



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Status: offline 		Personally it will cost you a bit more but I think a Mejzlik 26x10 from the get go would be a good prop. The reason for that is it won't put as much load on it as the NX, has good thrust, and as the engine breaks in and your rpms go up the Mej is going to remain nice and quite.

I think the NX will put a lot of load on the engine and then get really loud as it breaks in. On my buddy's DA he had a different 26x10 (I cant remember what it was) that was getting loud... I offered a 27x10 Xoar I had laying around and rpms went down but noise doubled. It was obnoxious (sp) in the air.. lasted half a flight and he landed it was so loud. He pulled the prop ( I threw it out) and went back to the other before he got a 27x10 Mejzlik.

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 4:40 PM   
yarom



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You do realize the break-in instructions for the DA-100 ask for a 27x10 to start with and recommend going to a 28x10 after the engine is fully broken in?

I don't know what this means for the DL-100, bit the 26x10 is somewhat small for this size engine and is the recommended break-in prop for the DA-85.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bob Pastorello

I understand, and I know you are well-experienced on these various bigger engines. That's one of the reasons I'm asking.
I don't know "come here" from "sic 'em" on these big twins, and openly admit such. This will be a learning curve for me, and I hope not a costly and regrettable experience.

At $40 - 50 + per prop, I'm sure not interested in buying paint stirrers....

I'll be running mine on stock exhausts, and Bob at DL USA says the 26 x 10 lets the engine turn up easier and unload a bit. I'm assuming (bad thing, I know) that these twins don't want to be overloaded anymore than any others, right?

Should I start with a NX or similar 26 x 10, or use the benchmark size from the get go?

Any advice appreciated.... (see line 2 of first paragraph....



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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 4:53 PM   
Bob Pastorello



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Status: offline 		Nope. Didn't know any of that; keep the info coming!
Thanks.

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 5:37 PM   
denney47


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy

Does anyone have any numbers on stock exhaust? Don't mean to be a party pooper but with 2 people saying 6000 with a 26x10 you would be further ahead to spend $50 and get a DA 85 and 500 rpms. I am curious if the headers are wrong length and killing power.

If you look at our video, with stock exhaust and 27 X 10 JXF prop we are getting just over 6000 RPM's, we will have it on a 35% SD Model's Extra 260 this weekend. We removed a ZDZ Super 80 from this airplane so it will give us some idea of the difference between the two. From watching this engine run I would not trade it for an 85cc form anyone.
Tom
Valley View RC

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 5:43 PM   
denney47


 

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Status: offline 		I would suggest not using anything less than a 27 X 10 propeller on this DL-100, this engine is screaming at 6000 RPM’s with a 27 X 10. A 26 X 10 is too small for this engine but that is just my 2 cents worth.
Tom
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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 9:20 PM   
rctom



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Status: offline 		People routinely prop the DL050 for 7000 rpm and above. The DL-100 uses exactly the same cylinder and piston so it has exactly the same port timing.

So why is 7000+ proper on a DL-50 but you want to lug the DL-100 down to 6000 rpm. They should have exactly the same power curve, just with bigger numbers for the 100, and so they ought to be running in the same power band.

One of these setups is clearly wrong, which is it?

TF

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 9:29 PM   
Bob Pastorello



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Status: offline 		Well put, Tom. The DL 50's I have seem VERY happy just at or under the 7000 rpm area. I agree with your logic, but can't base it on experience - yet. But it's a'comin'.......

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/5/2008 9:59 PM   
krayzc-RCU



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Status: offline 		running a 26B right now in the 6600-6700 range and started off with a 26a same 6700-6900 prior to changing props this is on a JTEC pitts (DA-85)

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 12:05 AM   
nonstoprc



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Status: offline 		What are the pros and cons of choosing a 100cc twin compared with a 85cc single?

Specifically, why pick DL-100 and not DA-85, and vise versa?

I do not want to start a brand war. Instead, just like to collect some data for my future reference.



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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 12:39 AM   
Jake Ruddy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: denney47


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy

Does anyone have any numbers on stock exhaust? Don't mean to be a party pooper but with 2 people saying 6000 with a 26x10 you would be further ahead to spend $50 and get a DA 85 and 500 rpms. I am curious if the headers are wrong length and killing power.

If you look at our video, with stock exhaust and 27 X 10 JXF prop we are getting just over 6000 RPM's, we will have it on a 35% SD Model's Extra 260 this weekend. We removed a ZDZ Super 80 from this airplane so it will give us some idea of the difference between the two. From watching this engine run I would not trade it for an 85cc form anyone.
Tom
Valley View RC



Yarom: I realize that.. but considering the numbers I don't see the point of going to a 27 right off the bat.


Tom: JXF if I recall don't exactly have the widest blades on them.. (I haven't used one in person) I don't see why you would recommend loading the engine down to 6000 ( or lower with a better prop) when the engine is new.. just going to make it work harder for no reason.


These are the first dl-100s so I expect some work has to be done... right now they aren't competing with the 85s or 100s out there. I will be looking forward to some more people getting their hands on them to share some more numbers.


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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 1:41 AM   
krayzc-RCU



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Status: offline 		if power is the same for both (not saying it is) its turns into a weight issue one is about 4 lbs and some change the other is 6 lbs and some change. Some need the weight for balance issue. The DA 85 is smooth so i wont do the internet myth that a twin is smoother as i have 3 twins and the DA-85. Sometimes once a mind is made up on one way or another that is the route that will be taken. I think the 85 is harder to queiten down over a twin but i fly at lowes motor speedway and that means no noiisy police around.....

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 1:59 AM   
frieshoo



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Status: offline 		Tested the DL100 a couple days ago.

Hot, and humid (92 degrees), 2200ft above sea level, Penzoil Air Cooled 32:1, stock mufflers, make shift test stand (basically a 2x6 bolted to my deck)

Tuned the engine to fly, had to lean the top end, lean the one end a bunch (1/2 turn), richen the high end...

Less than 15 minutes run time on the engine (about 20oz of fuel)

Vess 26B 6700
Vess 27A 6400

I'm using a hanger 9 tach, and Glo Bee tach..

My 5 year old ZDZ 80 with a smoke muffler turns the Vess 27A 6200.

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 2:07 AM   
frieshoo



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: denney47


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy

Does anyone have any numbers on stock exhaust? Don't mean to be a party pooper but with 2 people saying 6000 with a 26x10 you would be further ahead to spend $50 and get a DA 85 and 500 rpms. I am curious if the headers are wrong length and killing power.

If you look at our video, with stock exhaust and 27 X 10 JXF prop we are getting just over 6000 RPM's, we will have it on a 35% SD Model's Extra 260 this weekend. We removed a ZDZ Super 80 from this airplane so it will give us some idea of the difference between the two. From watching this engine run I would not trade it for an 85cc form anyone.
Tom
Valley View RC



Yarom: I realize that.. but considering the numbers I don't see the point of going to a 27 right off the bat.


Tom: JXF if I recall don't exactly have the widest blades on them.. (I haven't used one in person) I don't see why you would recommend loading the engine down to 6000 ( or lower with a better prop) when the engine is new.. just going to make it work harder for no reason.


These are the first dl-100s so I expect some work has to be done... right now they aren't competing with the 85s or 100s out there. I will be looking forward to some more people getting their hands on them to share some more numbers.




Jake,

I'm pretty sure JXF is the same as the original NX props. They load better than the MenzS, but not as much as the MSC. I used JXF on my DA50, and Brillelli during break in periods.. Both motors turned a 22x8 about 7200...

I haven't used them in about 2 years, they might have changed the size of the blades.


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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 2:14 AM   
eraser


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: frieshoo

Tested the DL100 a couple days ago.

Hot, and humid (92 degrees), 2200ft above sea level, Penzoil Air Cooled 32:1, stock mufflers, make shift test stand (basically a 2x6 bolted to my deck)

Tuned the engine to fly, had to lean the top end, lean the one end a bunch (1/2 turn), richen the high end...

Less than 15 minutes run time on the engine (about 20oz of fuel)

Vess 26B 6700
Vess 27A 6400

I'm using a hanger 9 tach, and Glo Bee tach..

My 5 year old ZDZ 80 with a smoke muffler turns the Vess 27A 6200.

6400 on a Vess 27A seems pretty good. Thats about all I get out of my DA-100 on stock mufflers at 5200" altitude.

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 2:39 AM   
Jake Ruddy



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Status: offline 		Dennis.. could be.. I haven't seen one in person.. someone said the tips were narrow on another thread but I couldnt tell from the video.

Yours is apparently blowing everyone else's out of the water... those are some 100 numbers Be nice to see other get that.. 6000 on a 27x10 =

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 4:26 AM   
RC Extreme power



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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

What are the pros and cons of choosing a 100cc twin compared with a 85cc single?

Specifically, why pick DL-100 and not DA-85, and vise versa?

I do not want to start a brand war. Instead, just like to collect some data for my future reference.




Viberation, Twins have less.

Milton

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 4:57 AM   
TailTouch



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Status: offline 		If sound or noise was the sole criteria, a DA-100 on stock mufflers sounds much quieter (and nicer...might I say) than a DA-85 on stock muffler.
Of course this becomes quite a moot point if you are using pipes or cannisters.

Personally, I'd take the simplicity of stock mufflers over tuned pipe or cannister setups. I know they sound cool and make more power etc. etc. but for impatient and mechanically challenged people like me,
stock setups are the best.

If the DL-100 makes as much power as the DA-85 on a stock setup and cost $250 less, it might be a good motor to try out.



quote:

ORIGINAL: krayzc-U

if power is the same for both (not saying it is) its turns into a weight issue one is about 4 lbs and some change the other is 6 lbs and some change. Some need the weight for balance issue. The DA 85 is smooth so i wont do the internet myth that a twin is smoother as i have 3 twins and the DA-85. Sometimes once a mind is made up on one way or another that is the route that will be taken. I think the 85 is harder to queiten down over a twin but i fly at lowes motor speedway and that means no noiisy police around.....



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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 5:19 AM   
Jake Ruddy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milton

quote:

ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

What are the pros and cons of choosing a 100cc twin compared with a 85cc single?

Specifically, why pick DL-100 and not DA-85, and vise versa?

I do not want to start a brand war. Instead, just like to collect some data for my future reference.




Viberation, Twins have less.

Milton



This is true.... but not much less... ZDZ Super 80 and DA 85 is pretty darn smooth! Ailerons are still moving on a twin at idle! 3W-85 well thats a thumper..

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 9:06 AM   
maxun


 

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Status: offline 		Hi guy's, new in the treat but here.
I went thru the pages and I see diference of opinion in prop and power, this is good.
This are my 2 cents, I got a DL50, out of the box a mouster, I think if Iam not wrong bob lost a BME Yak (expensive airplane) with a DA-50 in take off, and I did too, same plane.
what a waste.
With the DL50 I said: no way I'm going to rish 750.00 dollars airframe, so the plane was installed in a reject extremefly edge 540, Guy's what a surprice the DL50 was a mouster from the start up. Never a death stick never burp never nothing. a top noch engine. I can not say the same with my DA-50 but still arround. (Lots of money) and is running I thing better.
the DL100 seem to me like other winner, I was waiting during the winter for DA85, for my lanier edge 94" but the price is I I I!!!! in spanish Hay Hay Hay.
LOL
so I decided to wait for the DL100, but never happen so I slame a ZDZ100NGB2 in the 94", I use a 27-10 prop and I do not tach my engines, I do not care how much I can push the crank shaft, a well tune engine, regarless of the tach, with not overheat or shut off in fly, or spotter in middle range, I tune my engine by ear not by tach, everione in my field buy expensive tach and infrared termometer and in the end the ingine finish in my hands doing the tune, ridiculos, and I am serious.
I will love to try this engine but for now, too many plane's, even do I have a QQ 102 and a Lanier extra 94" to try this engine I will wait, or may be DLUSA send one for test and review in one of my airframes (stop dreaming).
Guy's have a blass and enjoy this summer, Bob Pastorello, nice to see you expert writing again, hope you have a blass this summer and no insidents, men you spend money. LOL.
This are some of the videos I took with a 100CC engine installed in a 94" by do way I shut the mouse of a lot of people with this engine in this airframe when was compare with the DA-85. Enjoy. OHH before I forget, thanks valley view rc for the 3 mousters you sold to me the Yak the edge and the extra 85" they still strong and true after 100's of succefull flight and death stick, super nice plane's this KMP. (extremefly rejects).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fmGlCY-TK2I



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< Message edited by maxun -- 6/6/2008 9:21 AM >

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 9:45 AM   
maxun


 

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Status: offline 		Bob I broke in my ZDZ with a 27-12 in idle only for 2 gallons with penzoil, and I still running the 27-12 in the video, the engine need to be tune to the prop size, different prop different tuning.
this is the video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BjJeXfxpfWM

and you right 50 to who knows what more $$$$ in a prop is not packet change. I'm with you, I got my xoar prop in the toledo show in the desert aircraft kiosko, was the chippers and nice looking prop in the show. chip is good.

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 1:32 PM   
Jake Ruddy



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Status: offline 		So let me get this straight... first you blame a DA 50 because you lost a plane THEN later you go on to say how a properly tuned engine won't overheat and won't dead stick.. giveme a break. I am not a DA 50 supporter.. never have been. That being said your post is a bunch of nonsense... ALL of these engines work the same way.. air, fuel, and spark. There are some differences in power, torque, midrange, and price.. but don't go blaming a DA because it deadsticked on you and then talk about properly tuned engines

You don't tach your engines yet you are shutting a lot of mouths... don't see how one could make a comparision.

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RE: DL 100 - New Twin on the Block!! - 6/6/2008 1:47 PM   
frieshoo



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TailTouch

If sound or noise was the sole criteria, a DA-100 on stock mufflers sounds much quieter (and nicer...might I say) than a DA-85 on stock muffler.
Of course this becomes quite a moot point if you are using pipes or cannisters.

Personally, I'd take the simplicity of stock mufflers over tuned pipe or cannister setups. I know they sound cool and make more power etc. etc. but for impatient and mechanically challenged people like me,
stock setups are the best.

If the DL-100 makes as much power as the DA-85 on a stock setup and cost $250 less, it might be a good motor to try out.



quote:

ORIGINAL: krayzc-U

if power is the same for both (not saying it is) its turns into a weight issue one is about 4 lbs and some change the other is 6 lbs and some change. Some need the weight for balance issue. The DA 85 is smooth so i wont do the internet myth that a twin is smoother as i have 3 twins and the DA-85. Sometimes once a mind is made up on one way or another that is the route that will be taken. I think the 85 is harder to queiten down over a twin but i fly at lowes motor speedway and that means no noiisy police around.....





the DL100 with stock mufflers is very very loud. This will be a problem for people flying with noise restrictions.

I picked up my new Extra 260 yesterday. I might do a quick build in another thread. I'll post a link.

I don't like running my engines on the ground, especially on a test stand... I'll only do it to get some quick numbers, and make sure a used engine is still operating correctly.



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Lowgap Flying Club Lowgap, North Carolina

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