RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA

RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA
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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 12:16 AM

blw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wjvail

What has gotten this thread in trouble is that it's not only about a new engine on the market but has also begun to include a discussion of America, Americas ability of compete in a global world and why this new engine is roughly 2 1/2 times the cost of engines made elsewhere. These are such obvious discussion points that it is little wonder that this thread has drifted back and forth between "a new engine" and "engines from other places". Some are discussing a new engine and others are arguing for or against its price in this global economy. Still, this violates the "no politics" rules of RCU. It is not possible to compare this engine to others on the market without at least touching on the global economy and politics behind it. However, that is not permitted. If we can talk about this engine and ignore the pricing and any comparison to much less expencive engines in the world, this thread will go on.... Otherwise it will be closed.

Yes, you are hitting the nail on the head with most of your comments. I found the thread a great discussion, and most members talking about those hot button topics respectfully. You are right that at least some discussion of taxing, pricing, and politics are unavoidable. It's the way it is talked about in a mature or immature manner.

I had to delete one post where there was a racial slur.

A lot of the posts were of personal comments to other members with comments such as, "are you stupid" and "did you even read what was written". They were simply getting too personal.

Some posts about retails stores and what items they carried were deleted for getting too political and too far off any r/c topic. Ditto for comments about the price of gasoline.

I hope the examples that I gave gives a perspective on what is okay and what goes too far. I think this is a great thread for many reasons. First, it is about a new engine by someone who seems to care. It is also a good comparison to other engines and models. Just good stuff, imo. I found it interesting that a 30cc engine is debatable as usable, but the 26cc is very close to that and isn't discussed. Just something I noticed.

Anyway, I really hope this thread can continue......

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 12:55 AM

planebuilder66

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And if were going to ban pricing of all items that are offered, then this debate on the engine wouldn't exist, the price is what's making the buzz, not the quality, no one has said it's quality is same as, no one has said the product isn't made correctly, the whole debate is about the price tag. So yes it's a little high, but that's what the US manufactured products cost, look at 3w, brisson & first place engines (fox), much more money but worth the investment. I have a cheap china 26 cc engine, the holes in the case are tapped crooked, the ignition system is marginal and it had to be regasketed due to the ethanol used in this country eating away at the cheaper rubber used in the diaphram, in the endrun, the cheap engine is not worth the headach of fiddling and rebuilding or retapping holes to the next size to make it work. Global economy and politics, no, just the quality and price you pay to get it.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 1:55 AM

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Most high end pattern planes are designed for a pipe. This is often used for regulating engine noise as much as increasing power. A header and pipe designed to work with this engine will be a must for most 2 + 2 planes. There is a possibility that current pipes or cans will work for this engine but here again, only testing will tell. I would encourage you to take a look at the current cans and pipes available through Central Hobbies for an already available can or pipe that will work on your engine. Of course you’ve shown that you do have the ability to design your own so you could go that route.

http://www.centralhobbies.com/index.htm

One last comment. I go out of my way to buy American. In most cases this means spending more. Do I care….. NO. I will always spend a little more to get good quality. I would like to say more but don’t feel like dawning my flame suit and don’t want my post censored.

Sorry this was a little long. I just wanted to let you know what the Pattern guys are looking for. If I can be of any help at all, please feel free to PM or e-mail me.

< Message edited by Rcpilot -- 6/23/2009 11:59 PM >

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 3:31 AM

bjnginge

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Hi there,i wanted to ask if these will have a choke because i have a 26CC rear induction of another brand without a choke.Its a real pain because you have to take the hatch off and choke it with your finger every time

< Message edited by blw -- 6/23/2009 4:32 PM >

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 5:14 AM

Jai Williams

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Here's an older 30cc Wolf Predator to compare to. It was heavier, cost more, and you can't get them anymore.
I'd say Todd's new engine is definitely an improvement, and fills a void.

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< Message edited by Rcpilot -- 6/23/2009 11:59 PM >

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 5:33 AM

w8ye

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I have one of those and it will turn a 18-8 at 8300 rpm. There's a lot of 40cc engines that will not do that

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 10:37 AM

tsyssa

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Bob, thanks for the info...we are already working on our own lightweight cannister that will be made in house...

I think ES will be a good choice for tuned pipes...so one of those will probably work nicely....I will be getting one soon to test with.

Will talk to you soon...

Yes...we have a choke on our carb...this is a no cost option if you would like it. You can use it with a servo or manually. Personally due to the thin edges of the props on these size props, I prefer to electric start. I feel its safer and have never damaged a prop electric starting. I know too many modelers that have damaged hands from hand starting...even with gloves on. It can be flipped easily with a soft chicken stick to start it, but I would recommend electric after a few years of trying both.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 11:49 AM

RCAddiction

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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

I have one of those and it will turn a 18-8 at 8300 rpm. There's a lot of 40cc engines that will not do that

I owned (2) Wolf 1.8's for quite a few years, having sold the RI version recently. I still have a piston ported Wolf Model B and really like it. It is slightly lighter than the RI version, and produced the same power. W8ye, which 18x8 prop are you spinning at 8300 rpm?

Todd's engine is lighter and significantly stronger than my 1.8's on the same props. And less costly.

< Message edited by RCAddiction -- 6/23/2009 12:27 PM >

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 12:16 PM

dude7422

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quote:

ORIGINAL: captinjohn

That may be just a retail price figure. Look how many things are discounted from retail prices. One thing for sure...we the US citizens have got to start producing more products here so we will have jobs. Yes that also means buy more products made in the USA. Capt,n

DRIVE WHAT DRIVES OUR jobs yes we in usa have to buy made in usa ..iam talking about big ticket items

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 12:37 PM

TexasSkyPilot

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Hey, this is no big deal.

All of the points made here are obvious points of discussion. Moreover, The photos alone show that Todd is building something of exceptional quality. The back-and-forth stuff about the pricing versus the quality, that's all everyday stuff nowadays.

But the good part is that it gets Todd noticed, and when people take a good look at a product of exceptional quality they are more likely to see all of the value in spending a little more.

So a little good natured arguing back and forth should be no reason to close this thread down. For what it is worth, I'll back out and say nothing more. It's not fair that Todd should suffer for me messing about in this thread.

So, I'm out! Catch ya later, guys. And you Mods, loosen your shorts a little. Nothing bad going on in here.

Later,

Jimbo

< Message edited by TexasSkyPilot -- 6/24/2009 1:28 AM >

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 2:02 PM

Super08

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I hope this engine turns out to be a screaming success. Maybe if everything works out Todd will look at expanding to a second engine in the 50~60cc class if it is a success.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 2:05 PM

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I believe this little 30cc, made in America, will be a much sought after addition to the steadily growing market of small gas engines. 30cc is a perfect alternative to what's out there already. Especially if its performance is beyond par of its competition. If people **** about the price, then let them complain. They would even complain if its price would be 300 bucks. They can buy cheap, if they want to. But don't expect quality when you pay 150 bucks for. I, myself, like the idea of having a 25% Extra or Yak 54 with a 30cc in its nose. I have a 30% and a 35%. I do want a smaller gas powered airplane as an alternative. This would be what I am looking for. Todd, I am sure you did your home work before you decided to jump into this endeavor. Good luck

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 3:41 PM

planebuilder66

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What ever was just posted almost locks this thread up, it won't show the bottom of the page, so hopefully this post will fix that.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 5:09 PM

Bobhend

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I just stumbled across this thread on this remarkable engine. This engine pulls an incredible 18.9 pounds installed in a plane. It's AUW is only 38 oz. I don't think you can do better anywhere, at least not that I have found. Compare it to the Evolution 26GX, the SAP 180HP provides more power for the same weigh and slightly less money.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 9:07 PM

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Planebuilder66, sorry about your China made 26 with the problems. I also have purchased a China made engine that is sold here in the U.S. that is a great engine. No problems what so ever, and it makes plenty of power and runs perfect. It is an RCGF and it seems to be of good quality with a great price tag. What I am having a hard time understanding or should I say swallowing is that just because something is made in the USA does not justify a high price tag. I paid about the same price for a 62cc engine with probably just as good quality. Someone please don't throw that *.*. out here about "well what about 500 gallons from now". The way I see it is if an engine lasts 100 gallons then it paid for itself.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 10:24 PM

maximlg253

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The price seems to be a bit high to me but domestic product with real person behind may be worth some extra cash. I am not an American, I just happened to live in the USA. Still, I would rather pay local businesses which strive for perfection for some added cost. I own DLE-55 which runs simply great and is even less expensive. And I have beautiful PA Monocoupe - and it turned out DLE is too big for the airframe. It calls for small gasser. I previously had a converted G26, old and trusty but heavy. The engine was recently replaced with XYZ-26 ($180) and I must say I am not very happy with quality and run of the engine. There are only three airplanes in my hangar at this moment and I want best or close to best stuff in each of them. So new USA made 30cc gasser is very viable option, even though it is an expensive investment... The only thing which really scares me is unproven performance and reliability records of new product.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 10:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: planebuilder66

What ever was just posted almost locks this thread up, it won't show the bottom of the page, so hopefully this post will fix that.

Yep ,there is definitely a problem with this thread, when Balsawings posted i have not been able to access any posts after his .
when i go into the home page then i can access the rest of the posts after his

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 10:34 PM

tsyssa

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OK...someone a while back was interested in putting it in a cub.

Well..I have a quick photo here of an installation almost done.

Please ignore the prop that is on it...that 17x5 turned about 12,000 rpm...and way to small for the engine.

Probably the best prop for this plane is also an 18x6 Vess.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 10:58 PM

w8ye

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCAddiction

quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

I have one of those and it will turn a 18-8 at 8300 rpm. There's a lot of 40cc engines that will not do that

I owned (2) Wolf 1.8's for quite a few years, having sold the RI version recently. I still have a piston ported Wolf Model B and really like it. It is slightly lighter than the RI version, and produced the same power. W8ye, which 18x8 prop are you spinning at 8300 rpm?

Todd's engine is lighter and significantly stronger than my 1.8's on the same props. And less costly.

I have the piston ported version. It has always been flawless. I paid more for it than Todd wants for his engine. I was trying to remember the prop. I only had wood Zingers, Dynaflite, and I think MAS 18-8 props. I think it was the MAS. It has been three years since I've used the engine. The prop I was using had fatter blades than the Dynaflite props.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 11:03 PM

super_nova

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsyssa

Yes...we have a choke on our carb...this is a no cost option if you would like it. You can use it with a servo or manually. Personally due to the thin edges of the props on these size props, I prefer to electric start. I feel its safer and have never damaged a prop electric starting. I know too many modelers that have damaged hands from hand starting...even with gloves on. It can be flipped easily with a soft chicken stick to start it, but I would recommend electric after a few years of trying both.

This is probably an obvious question, but I'm new to gassers and have little to no experience with small gas engines....by electric starting do you mean with a starter like you would use on a glow engine? And how does this effect the choke option? Can you start it without using the choke? If so, what is the purpose of the choke, just a means of priming the engine?

This engine sure looks interesting. And having support just a phone call away is definitely appealing for a first time gas setup.

Jason

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 11:31 PM

tsyssa

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No prob..

Just start it like a glow engine...except remember to flip on the ignition switch!

The choke is for people that wish to start it by flipping the prop with a stick or some other SAFE means manually.
After you run the SAP180HP for the first time of the day, you don't need to use the choke anymore.

Using the electric start has saved me quite a few props...they do get nicked after a while.

The choke can be servo activated or manually activated.

The choke does the same thing as putting your finger over the carb opening on a glow engine and turning the prop. If sucks fuel up rapidly to the carb when turning the prop over under choked condition (when it is covering the carb).

Hope that helps...

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 11:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GSK

quote:

ORIGINAL: planebuilder66

What ever was just posted almost locks this thread up, it won't show the bottom of the page, so hopefully this post will fix that.

Yep ,there is definitely a problem with this thread, when Balsawings posted i have not been able to access any posts after his .
when i go into the home page then i can access the rest of the posts after his

That is what I had to do as well. Something in that script is messing things up.

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/23/2009 11:44 PM

GSK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Super08

quote:

ORIGINAL: GSK

quote:

ORIGINAL: planebuilder66

What ever was just posted almost locks this thread up, it won't show the bottom of the page, so hopefully this post will fix that.

Yep ,there is definitely a problem with this thread, when Balsawings posted i have not been able to access any posts after his .
when i go into the home page then i can access the rest of the posts after his

That is what I had to do as well. Something in that script is messing things up.

Can the Moderator do something about this problem please ?

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/24/2009 12:02 AM

Rcpilot

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Script edited. I can see everything, but thats because I'm a mod.

Can you guys see everything now?

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RE: NEW 30CC GASSER MADE IN THE USA - 6/24/2009 12:06 AM

GSK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rcpilot

Script edited. I can see everything, but thats because I'm a mod.

Can you guys see everything now?

Yep all good ,though i now have to go back to the main page if i want to reply ,no worries ,thanks

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