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Brushless motor on Kyosho Rage

Old 12-03-2016, 05:52 AM
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icesergio
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Talking Brushless motor on Kyosho Rage

So I recently dumped about 200$ on upgrades for my kyosho rage VE, bought a xerun v10 13.5T motor, Trackstar 1/8 Scale 150A ESC all powered by a graphene 3s 45C Li-PO

I've been using it for a while now and there hasn't been any damage whatsoever (or so I hope), spur gear is fine, pinion is fine, car runs like a champ. However there are 2 worrying things:

1. When I mash the throttle to WOT the car makes a loud pitch screeching noise and won't get up to speed, slipper clutch is tightened all the way in
2. When off power (in other words, anytime the car is not being accelerated by applying throttle) there is a loud sound coming from the engine/rear drivetrain

The second one is what is worrying me the most and I am scared of damaging my engine
I'll include a sound clip with the car on a stand, wheels spinning freely in the air so you can hear it yourself

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8M...V5eTBxTkk/view

Thanks in advance!!
Old 12-03-2016, 07:30 AM
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EXT2Rob
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That sounds normal to me. Are you sure the mesh between the spur and pinion is set properly? And did you use loktite on the pinion grub screw?
Old 12-03-2016, 07:51 AM
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icesergio
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No loctite on the pinion screw but I have torqued it down with a high leverage allen key, I have set mesh a bit on the tighter side because of the increment in the power delivery system. Are you 200% sure it's ok? Not doubting your experience, just want to be sure after dumping so much cash into this car And what can you tell me about the screeching noise when applying immediate WOT?
Old 12-03-2016, 08:22 AM
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If you don't use loktite on the grub screw, it'll come loose eventually. Y don't want that to happen. And btw, did you use loktite on the motor mount screws? If not, do it. The incremental increase in power has nothing to do with proper setting of mesh. Use the paper method to set your mesh. Proper is proper. If you set it too tight, you'll ruin your motor bearings.

The whine you hear may be the motor bearings complaining, because you have the mesh too tight, or it could just be the sound of the new motor. I would have had to hear the original setup to be 200% sure. But it sounds fairly normal to me.
Old 12-03-2016, 08:45 AM
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icesergio
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I tried removing the engine and running it only with the pinion, obviously I haven't run WOT without load because that would kill the engine, it runs smoothly. I have now reset the mesh with the photocopy paper method and took some photos and a video to let you hear/see the results.

First 3 are pics of spur/pinion, last one is a video showing the car running

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...FlhT0lHVW5TaEU

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...UwtMmhjSEZ1cDg

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...jVoZ0hOOVc3ejQ

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...VhEczRrcHIzTjQ
Old 12-03-2016, 08:46 AM
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icesergio
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Also, I have drag brake at 0% and volt cutoff at 3.3V per cell in ESC, everything else is as it came out of the box
Old 12-03-2016, 11:18 AM
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Bruddah, your spur gear is TOAST. You didn't SEE that?! Get a new spur gear, set the mesh properly, and you should be fine. I didn't even look at the last two links. That's your problem as far as the noise is concerned.

But you mentioned that you felt the car didn't get up to speed as you expected? What was the KV rating of the motor you replaced, and the KV rating of the one you're running now?
Old 12-03-2016, 11:30 AM
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icesergio
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2400KV was the old motor, this is 2750KV which is still under the tolerance of the ESC (>3000KV when using 2-4s Li-Po)
About the spur gear, now that you are telling me it is looking kinda in bad shape, can I trash this one until the teeth fall off or do I risk damaging other things in which case I'll replace it right away?
It's not that the car doesn't get up to speed,from a stop this happens:
If I moderately get on the power, in other words, if I slowly accelerate, the car will get up to full speed no problem
If I punch the throttle to WOT straight away the car will start moving a bit and make a screeching noise (not metal screeching, more like a plasticky screech). Unfortunately I can't give you an audio clip because it's 9 PM here in Italy (I wouldn't be able to capture sound anyways with my crappy s4 mini) and this doesn't happen when the car is lifted off the ground

BTW thanks for taking your time to reply
Old 12-03-2016, 11:35 AM
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icesergio
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Ahhhh wait a minute. Could the noise be caused by the pinion gear actually "skipping" over the toasted teeth on the spur gear causing the screeching noise and the lack of immediate acceleration?
Old 12-03-2016, 01:16 PM
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Absolutely! Those sub-3000kv motors are torque monsters too. So if the mesh isn't just right, you can, well, do what you did to yours.
I couldn't tell from the pinion picture cuz it was not as sharp, but check the pinion gear too. If it looks worn in any way, replace it with the spur, then set your mesh with the paper method. While yer in there, make sure your motor mount screws have loktite. If the motor moves, you'll toast another spur gear.
Old 12-03-2016, 02:06 PM
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icesergio
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Thanks for everything, is there any way I can choose your answer as best solution or something?
BTW last question: can I use this spur/pinion until they are completely toast and change them with new ones or do I risk damaging something else?
Old 12-03-2016, 04:51 PM
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I suppose if you just wanted to putt around and not go wot, you could. But I wouldn't stress the front motor bearing by doing it too much.

Happy to help, bro. 😀 It's why we're here. You provided good information, with pics!, so that helps a lot.

If ya don't mind my saying, you write like a native English speaker. Are you an expat? Whatcha doin' in Italia? ( I used to work for Intel, so I find it interesting what other people are doing living abroad. )
Old 12-03-2016, 05:10 PM
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Having the slipper clutch set properly might save some wear and tear on the spur gear. Maybe check into an aftermarket metal motor mount. Is your motor adjusted with a cam style setup? I know on one of my RCs, that has a plastic mount; using a 1/8 scale sized motor will twist the mount excessively...ends up with spur gear shot in no time.
Old 12-03-2016, 08:10 PM
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Damn good point, Rusty. Good catch.
Old 12-04-2016, 12:26 AM
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icesergio
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I made a video explaining the motor mount. Please don't mind the voice, I just woke up :/

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...lpyeUtfUUpBTWs
Old 12-04-2016, 12:28 AM
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icesergio
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No no, if I risk damaging the xerun motor then I'd rather wait for parts and do things the proper way.
About my english: I am only 15 years old, which explains why I am a bit of cheapskate; money is limited and I saved up for almost a year to get my hands on the cash for the upgrades. I lived in China for 8 years, went to an international english school and that's where I learnt english. So that's that Thanks to the both of you
Old 12-04-2016, 12:37 AM
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Sound clip of the motor running only with the pinion gear on the shaft. Do you think I have already damaged it?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8M...ew?usp=sharing
Old 12-04-2016, 03:38 AM
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Checked play in the shaft, there is only a tad of up and down play but side to side is solid
Old 12-04-2016, 08:20 AM
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Nah, you're fine, Sergio. It's all good. No damage. That motor mount does look solid, so flex should not be your problem. Might've just been improper mesh. Get ya a new spur and pinion gear and you should be fine. Glad we could help!

Wow, got to live in China for a while, huh? That must've been an interesting experience for a young guy. Cool!
Old 12-04-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by icesergio
I made a video explaining the motor mount. Please don't mind the voice, I just woke up :/

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...lpyeUtfUUpBTWs
Yes, that's what I was assuming with being able to adjust the gear mesh. Just be sure to tighten down the motor mount piece that covers the attached "cam" on the motor. Once you get the correct gear mesh, keep and eye on the mesh/motor cam loosening between your runs. If you gear mesh is all good at the end of your run, and you start to see spur gear becoming melted/deformed, then I'd suspect motor mount flexing under hard acceleration/stopping.

Last edited by RustyUs; 12-04-2016 at 09:18 AM.
Old 12-04-2016, 08:29 AM
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icesergio
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Ok then, thank you all for taking your time to answer me! What did I learn from this thread? Don't be a cheapskate and learn your stuff before dumping cash into expensive upgrades

p.s. growing up in China as a kid was certainly an experience, I have been a very lucky little brat, the RC scene there is huge, especially boats and cars, in Shanghai that is
Old 12-04-2016, 09:19 AM
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After doing search for aftermarket parts, I see the plastic motor mount is a part of the chassis. So I highly doubt someone being able to find a metal motor mount. Now, if you do find the motor cam loosening constantly, the only thing I can suggest to do is clean the motor mount, and the groove in the cam. One last possible step would be to use hairspray (applied with Q-tip, or similar applicator) on the motor mount/cam when setting the spur/pinion gear mesh. The hairspray isn't used to be a permanent bonding agent, just used as an extra gripping agent to prevent motor from shifting.
Old 12-04-2016, 09:31 AM
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Good luck.

Get out there and throw some dirt!
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Old 12-05-2016, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by icesergio
Ok then, thank you all for taking your time to answer me! What did I learn from this thread? Don't be a cheapskate and learn your stuff before dumping cash into expensive upgrades

p.s. growing up in China as a kid was certainly an experience, I have been a very lucky little brat, the RC scene there is huge, especially boats and cars, in Shanghai that is
Very cool, dude! Nice that you appreciate the experience. Happy to help! Now, like Rusty said, "Go out an throw some dirt!"

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